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#481
Sveiki!
This morning, 10.00, I went to water my flowers in the passive house. I find: windows without shading - my husband gave it away few days before. The temperature in the house was 27,2°C. It was very sunny and warm, today. So I re-shaded some south windows and start testing our cooling power: I set the unit into overpressure, air performance was 55 and 40% (about 100 m3/h) At 14.00, the temperature was 26,8 °C. I“m satisfied.

QUOTE(Vilienė @ 2012 08 18, 19:20)
You know the power depends on the air quantity, on the volume. You should increase the ventilation to get more cooling power. Together with the window shading this must work 4u.gif
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Šį pranešimą redagavo Jarka: 19 rugpjūčio 2012 - 21:51
#482
QUOTE(Vilienė @ 2012 08 19, 13:59)
Vamzdis d110 PVC nuo 10,10 iki 16,50; analogas d100 vėdinimo - 9,10


VAMZDIS (SKERSMUO 110; 2 m) (WAVIN) 1m kaina 8.48 Lt, pigiau nei oficiali pateikta analogiško ortakyno kaina. Kitas reikalas, iki kokios gali būti nuleista užsakant individualiai.
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#483
QUOTE(Jarka @ 2012 08 19, 22:48)
I set the unit into overpressure, air performance was 55 and 40% (about 100 m3/h) At 14.00, the temperature was 26,8 °C. I“m satisfied.

Ahoj! smile.gif
I knew that will work. How it works - try to leave the same conditions for at least 24hours, pls measure the temperature in the pipe before the ventilation unit. The question is how soon your earth pipe will get tired - after one day, two days, one week?
Volume: 100m3/h is not enough, if you set the unit for 200m3/h the cooling should nearly double, depending on the performance of earth pipe. If your earth pipe delivers the air +20C and you had +27C in the morning, the cooling power was just 100 x (27-20) x 0.36 ~250W. As you see the way to increase it is to rise the air volume or to drop the supply air temperature.
Papildyta:
QUOTE(mintas @ 2012 08 19, 23:39)
VAMZDIS (SKERSMUO 110; 2 m) (WAVIN) 1m kaina 8.48 Lt, pigiau nei oficiali pateikta analogiško ortakyno kaina. Kitas reikalas, iki kokios gali būti nuleista užsakant individualiai.

Toj kontoroj nuolaidų nebegausi, todėl 8.48 yra tai, ką jau turi mokėti - kaina nekonkurencinga net nepamirštant, kad tai su PVM 4u.gif
Bet pažiūrėk į kitą poziciją - d160 čia jau pravalas konkretus.
Nežinau, kodėl Jarka naudojo PVC, mūsų sąlygomis tai tikrai neapsimoka vien finansiškai.
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#484
It is unreal to do good measurement with the capacity of the basis exchanger. It is caused by the weather - it“s not warm during night. I missed the right time for testing in July when days and nights were hot during 2 weeks nonstop.
E.g. now: day 33°C, night temperature is 18°C. That means the night air is not heating the exchanger much. The exchanger has bigger chance to regenerate. The measurement can“t be objective now.
I think it is good, during night with 20°C and less, to set the unit into underpressure and open the microventilation in windows.

I wanted 4 senzors in pipes next to the unit but it is too late now. I don“t believe my husband is willing to open it because of my senzors. :-)

One important thing yet: our basis exchanger is not deep, only about 80 cm. The best earth exchangers are 180 cm deep - in our climate circumstances. I know that the south side of basis is very warm because basis aren“t insulated, yet. After insulating, conditions become better in Summer and in Winter, too.

And I must notice I“m not sure if our basis exchanger is suitable for conditions in Lithuania in Winter. Our counting temperature for soil / under floor is +5°C. Non-freezing depth is 80 cm under the surface.

My husband had prices for HT (PP) pipes and PVC pipes. The PVC ones were cheaper and so he bought PVC. But PP is more correct!

QUOTE(Vilienė @ 2012 08 19, 22:48)
Ahoj! smile.gif
I knew that will work. How it works - try to leave the same conditions for at least 24hours, pls measure the temperature in the pipe before the ventilation unit. The question is how soon your earth pipe will get tired - after one day, two days, one week?
Volume: 100m3/h is not enough, if you set the unit for 200m3/h the cooling should nearly double, depending on the performance of earth pipe. If your earth pipe delivers the air +20C and you had +27C in the morning, the cooling power was just 100 x (27-20) x 0.36 ~250W. As you see the way to increase it is to rise the air volume or to drop the supply air temperature.
Papildyta:
Nežinau, kodėl Jarka naudojo PVC, mūsų sąlygomis tai tikrai neapsimoka vien finansiškai.
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Šį pranešimą redagavo Jarka: 20 rugpjūčio 2012 - 00:45
#485
QUOTE(Jarka @ 2012 08 20, 01:37)
I think it is good, during night with 20°C and less, to set the unit into underpressure and open the microventilation in windows.

I wanted 4 senzors in pipes next to the unit but it is too late now. I don“t believe my husband is willing to open it because of my senzors. :-)

One important thing yet: our basis exchanger is not deep, only about 80 cm. The best earth exchangers are 180 cm deep - in our climate circumstances. I know that the south side of basis is very warm because basis aren“t insulated, yet. After insulating, conditions become better in Summer and in Winter, too.

And I must notice I“m not sure if our basis exchanger is suitable for conditions in Lithuania in Winter. Our counting temperature for soil / under floor is +5°C. Non-freezing depth is 80 cm under the surface.

My husband had prices for HT (PP) pipes and PVC pipes. The PVC ones were cheaper and so he bought PVC. But PP is more correct!

The earth heat exchanger, whatever the construction is, should have a bypass. If your pipe gets tired during the day and starts delivering let's say +22C you should use bypass mode during the night when the air drops to +18C. This is quite common in the spring and in the autumn when the temperature changes a lot during the day and the night. When it is in the bypass mode the ventilation unit gets the air directly from the outside, not from the earth pipe.
Sensors - you only need to drill a hole of 8mm in the duct to get the sensor inn. The hole can be repaired with silicone after.
I have noticed you have burred it so low...but your earth conditions are slightly different. The frost limit is 1,20m in Lithuania but the the eaqrth pipes must be at the same depth 1,80m and more, below the level of ground waters - the more humid the earth the better conditions for the exchanger (due to excellent c~4180J/kg*K of water). You can set the depht less if the exchanger is insulated on the top e.g. my exchanger lays under the building only 50cm from the top but it is insulated by 350mm EPS100.
I haven't seen the beginning of your earth pipe in the blog. How have you sorted the "chimney"?
Papildyta:
QUOTE(Jarka @ 2012 08 20, 01:37)
My husband had prices for HT (PP) pipes and PVC pipes. The PVC ones were cheaper and so he bought PVC. But PP is more correct!

As you have seen above, the ducts for the ventilation are significant cheaper in Lithuania, the all time exchange rate is 1€=3,4528LTL.
I can not understand how the PVC can be cheaper in SK, Poland is close and they do produce everything there. Even PVC,PP,PE - that is cheaper in PL than LT.
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#486
QUOTE(Vilienė @ 2012 08 20, 07:20)
I haven't seen the beginning of your earth pipe in the blog. How have you sorted the "chimney"?


We have only one input to the ventilation = through the basis exchanger. I know realisations with input on the facade, people do so.
We have no classical "chimney", it isn“t in our plans. It“s too expensive, I remeber about 200 €. Never! We have only temporary input with filter, price 7 €.
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#487
QUOTE(Jarka @ 2012 08 20, 16:48)
about 200 €.

I would be glad if a proper thing is 200€ biggrin.gif Polished stainless steel 500€!
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#488
Besiruosiantiems instaliuotis rekuperacine, siulau suskubti, nes nuo 09.01 brangsta produkcija, bent jau komfovent, gauti jau nauji katalogai su didesnemis kainomis.
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#489
QUOTE(egis_klp @ 2012 08 20, 18:11)
Besiruosiantiems instaliuotis rekuperacine, siulau suskubti, nes nuo 09.01 brangsta produkcija, bent jau komfovent, gauti jau nauji katalogai su didesnemis kainomis.


ar imanoma kur nors naujas komfovent kainas pamatyti?
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#490
QUOTE(==== @ 2012 08 20, 20:50)
ar imanoma kur nors naujas komfovent kainas pamatyti?

Nezinau..Firma kuri irengineja pas mane rekuperacija, uzsimine..
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#491
Gan dažnai tenka atsakinėti į klausimus dėl Tenko ortakių sistemos, tad sumaniau patalpinti atsakymą čia. Gal kam bus įdomu.
Tenko vamzdžiai - tai gražiai išreklamuota apgavystė. Kadangi vidinis paviršius nėra lygus, o skersmuo - labai mažas, jie turi labai didelį pasipriešinimą. Ir dėl to, judant orui, atsiranda garsas. Santykinai lygiame, spiraliniame skardiniame ortakyje, kai pasipriešinimas sudaro ~0.5-0.8Pa (priklausomai nuo ortakio didžio) - susidaro ~35dB garsas. Jei kiekvienas difuzorius yra pajungtas per triukšmo slopintuvą, tai šį garsą galima nuslopinti iki 25-27dB. Jautresnės klausos žmonės, kartais (kai aplink yra tyla) sugeba išgirsti net 22dB garsą, tačiau tam reikės prisiartinti prie pat oro išleidimo/siurbimo angos, nes garsui pasklidus po patalpą, jo galia sumažėja ir galutinai nuslopinama, esančiu kambaryje daiktų minkštuose paviršiuose. Viršyti 35dB garso lygį ortakiuose yra nepatartina.

Tačiau, Tenko ortakių kataloge parašyta:
Maksimalus leidžiamas oro kiekis per vieną 75/63mm ortakį yra 30m3/h. Esant tokiam oro kiekiui, pasipriešinimas ortakyje yra 3 Pa/m.
Apie sukeliamą garsą - nei žodžio. Suprantama, Tenko ortakių sienelės yra minkštesnės už skardą ir gali kažkiek triukšmo sugerti. Bet, kiek?
Tarkim, Sonodec ortakių gamintojai pateikia lentelę, kur matosi, kad 25mm storio minkštos vatos sluoksnis ortakio viduje sugeba sugerti, viso labo sugeria 9dB/m, jei kalbama apie 125Hz dažnio garsą. Kiek gali sugerti kietas pustas polietilenas Tenko nerašo, tačiau įtariu kad kelis kartus mažiau nei vata.

O svarbiausia - jei vietoje Tenko sudėsite 80mm skardinį ortakį, jus prarasite tik 5mm aukščio, bet vietoje 30m3/h jus galėsite su tokiu pat pasipriešinimu praleisti net 75m3/h ...ir nemokėti 3x22Lt/m + paskirstymo dėžutę vietoje 6Lt/m. )))
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#492
Teko matyti viename name sumontuotas lanksčius ortakius, tai visur iki difuzoriaus buvo vedami du vamzdžiai. Tad visur ortakiai sudvejinti ir gali pristatyti daugiau oro mažesniu greičiu. Kiek tai turi įtakos garsui nežinau.

Mane šiek tiek sudomino lanksti ortakių sistema. Gal kas gali pakomentuoti tokių sistemų kainų skirtumą, lyginant su skardiniais. Įvertinus ir darbų kainą. Lanksčių ortakių atveju, viską galiu pats pasidaryti, o vat su skardiniais teks samdytis.
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