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Our house is in warm and sunny area of Slovakia, not in Poprad. But I have a friend in Poprad with zero house:
http://www.nulovydom.info/ and http://www.pasivnydom.net/ . Many details are presented here: http://www.modrastre.../fotoblog/mio23 - choose Albumy.

Time of return of our recup. unit is about 7 years. But it is number without consumption of electricity and filter changing, without repairs (I hope they never will be :-) ). Prices of these effective units are 1300 € and more. And nice terms of money return are only in case of el. heating. If the sourse is gas or wood, term of return is 16 years and more. Only unit, I don´t count work.

Of course, there´s no other way for passive house how to achieve 15 kWh(m2a) - recup. is necessary. But in Slovakia, ventilation is more expensive than heating...

Performance - it is not measured. Few years before, I counted pressure drop and found appropriate number of amount of the air. It would be interesting to find it by measuring. But I have no money to pay some firm for it.

Our system hasn´t any active cooling. Only pipe in the earth... not earth but in basis of the house... not very deeply... In July, we had teperatures 36-40°C outside. Windows were unshaded and the Sun was heating the house. Our maximum in the house was 29°C. Temperature of the air from the earth-register was about 20°C. So it isn´t coolig... only helps to maintain temperature in the house.
Then rapid cooling came, so I opened the windows and let the temperature go down. Then I shaded windows. In these days, it is warm and sunny outside, but the temperature in the house is 25°C. I think it´s fine.
Windows are very dangerous in Summer... I see.

I will study your house, thank you.

Tikrai džiaugiuosi, kad sugryžot, maniau atostogaut kur išvykot, kaip tik Jūsų komentarų šiuo klausimu ir laukiau.

Gaila, kad arba aš nemoku raštu perteikti savo minčių, arba Jūs nesugebate jas išskaityti, bet rašydamas apie kanalizacijos vamzdžius, tikrai nesiruošiau juos aukštinti, kaip tik apie juos parašiau, kaip apie atrastą naują medžiagą ortakių rengimui, primečiau, kad ją žmonės įsirengia dėl finansinio aspekto ir klausiau šį reikalą išmanančių žmonių detalesnės nuomonės apie ją, o jei ir žiniomis pasidalintų, tai iš vis būtų nuostabu.

Beje, naujausiame 2012 Nr5 (85) "Statyk" numeryje 59p. kaip tik rašo apie plastikinius "Uponor" ortakius. Ten konkrečiai reklaminis straipsnis ir užkliuvo jame keli teiginiai.

Pirmas, kad plastikiniai "Uponor" ortakiai pigesni už skardinius. Dėl šio teiginio aišku pirmiau reikėtų juos pamatyti Lietuvoje, kad jį patikrint, antra kanalizacijos vamzdžiai dėl ženkliai didesnės paklausos ir pasiūlos turėtų būti dar pigesni.

Antras teiginys, kad "Uponor" ortakiai neskleidžia toksiškų medžiagų, kaip kad nuotėkoms skirtų plastikinių vamzdžių atveju. Dėl šio punkto, labai gerai pamenu "Tėvelio" pasisakymą bitės forume, kai jis buvo užklaustas apie žemės šilumokaitį, kurį jis pasidarė iš kanalizacijos vamzdžių. Užklaustas dėl toksiškumo, jis persiuntė šį klausimą vamzdžių gamintojams, ir atsakymas buvo toks, kad iš tos pačios plastmasės gaminami maistui skirti plastmasiniai indai ar kažkas panašaus. Mintis tokia, kad apie toksiškumą čia net nesišviečia.

Gas... that is more expensive in our country, so the figures would be more nice looking... The wood - this choice is the worst for the passive house because of the size of the investment and the problems with controling the power. I would say because the heater has no brains. The most intelegent wood heater is probably the one which uses pellets but in this case we should be looking for very large investment, unless the heating is made for not one passive house but let's say at least 5 or 10 - the bigger output power is installed the cheaper kWh is produced. From my point of view the only suitable ways to heat the passive house is electricity, and maybe heat pump (various type; air-air or any other combination) gas isn't very good because of high installation costs (this maybe not the case for Slovakia) and the price of fuel.
The target of 15kWh/m2a isn't the most important thing in the world and I didn't mean recuperation is necessary for that. I think THE FRESH AIR in the house is much more important, and because the passive house is air tight we must install the mechanical ventilation system. If we have got that system without heat recovery, to upgrade it to heat recovery will not cost a lot, the difference is only heat exchanger in the air handling unit which may cost 250-350eur.

Yes, I agree. Some interesting things, yet - prices of energy in Slovakia:
gas - 0,048 €/kWh
el. - 0,1124-0,14 €/kWh
wood - various, but it is cheaper than gas

Ventilation systems aren´t usual in Slovakia. I know nobody who has any ventilation in his family house. Only those people who wants low energy or passive house. For me (and us) doesn´t exist question if WITH or WITHOUT heat exchanger... The question is: without ventilation or with recuperation? Ventilation without recup. doesn´t exist in family houses and flats. Therefore, I count term of return of money for the unit or the system.

When I prepare low-energy houses, I always ask if the investors really want to heat by wood. Many of them want looking into the real fire (not ethanol). So they have a small fire place, 2-4 kW. It burns only short time and ventilation helps to distribute the heat across the house.

In our house, only electricity is used. Heat pump is too expensive. And for warm water this technology is OK(but only by fully electrified households: http://www.logitex.s...ndex.php?ver=en .

Well, if it was nearly 40C outside and your earth pipe has been delivering only +20C to the house - that can be called "cooling". Sun control is very important, it's good you have shaded the windows. Try to increase the ventilation this should put the tempterature down inside the house. By the way, your problems with humidity in winter - have you tried to put some water into the pipe so it could put the humidity up?
My earth heat exchanger has got different construction but it is recomended to put the water to it for the humidity increase.
What the lowest temperature have you received from your earth pipe during the winter?

Hi,

Does it mean - electricity is the main and the only energy source in your house? What kind of heating system you have installed in your house?
My house is being planned to use electricity only, therefore it is interesting for me what kind of heating solutions you have chosen.

Thanks.

Gas: 2.79LTL/m3 / 3.4528LTL/EUR / 8kWh/m3 ~ 0.1Eur/kWh
el. 13.03Eur/kWh single tariff; 10.72 and 14.19Eur/kWh double tariff(day and night) - that is quite similar to your price.

Papildyta:

I would imagine this way of heating shouldn't be very comfortable, as long the fire is on the temperature should jump quickly and if the heater has been loaded with too much fuel the house should be overheated. The air tightness and very good insulation and heat recovery ventilation should result in a slow temperature drop even the fire has completely stopped - it is very hard to control the output of the heater. For example my house has got total energy loss of ~ 3.5kWh at delta t =43 (-23C outside +20C inside) but on the average day it may need only 1-1.5kW of heating, how to set the wood burner for such a small power?

WITH or WITHOUT exchanger - that was only a sample of cost counting. The passive house without the mechanical ventilation would turn in the gas chamber, it is absolute nonsence.
Mechanical ventilation isn't avery new technology in the private falimy houses here, but some older systems have been installed wrongly, the costs of running recuperation were very high so people stopped using that, turned back to natural, ventilation by gravity...that is not a problem in the old constructed houses because these were not air tight enough. The main problem is elektrical air preheater which ensures the heat exchanger won't be frozen, also horibly large standrds of ventilation - can you imagine some ventilation profesionals have been planing the ventilation with air turnover min 1 to 1.5 time per hour!!! Just imagine that with electric preheater in the average house of 250m2 So the mechanical ventilation has got a bad name this way. "A drop of oil ruins a barrel of honey" couple wrongly installed systems made the public opinion negative. But the things are changing and there are a lot of people who know the advantages of mechanical ventilation and want that in the houses, there are the ways to keep the running costs low.
When you count the payback of recuperation please take in mind the CONTROL OF VENTILATION. The system really gives you the tool to control the volume of air inn and out from the house - you can't do that with natural gravity ventilation. It's not just 80m3/h x (delta t) x c (0.36) x (1-0.92) which is dead easy to count .Please try to count the termal loose in case of natural ventilation where nobody is sure about the volume of air lost which depends on the weather conditions outside the house. Shortly: we can count the termal loose for mechanical system in the airtight house, but we can only guess the loose in the house with natural ventilation. And the comfort of cause, the fresh air in the house.

Sveiki (very nice word... the first word which I understand)

Cooling - but not very strong. OK, let´s call it so. :-)
Problems with low RH in Winter - we hadn´t them. Last Winter, RH in the house was very high thanks to wet processes (plastering, painting), about 80-95%. The ventilation was me :-), the unit we hadn´t at that time.
Ventilation through windows + heating by one el. convector 1800 W (it was enough).

We could install unit when level of dust was acceptable - unit is used since March. Unit has contributed to lower RH - under 70%. And now RH fell into 45%. So I stopped ventilation. There´s nobody who would produced humidity.

I haven´t done measures of temperature of the air from earth (basis) exchanger in Winter, because it hasn´t used at that time. Senzor showed min. temperature in the center under the house: 13°C. But there are numbers from the other exchanger in basis - there was -2°C. Heat exchanger in unit accepts this temperature. (But our Sentinel Kinetic has antifrost protection, too.)

QUOTE(Vilienė @ 2012 08 17, 22:33)

Well, if it was nearly 40C outside and your earth pipe has been delivering only +20C to the house - that can be called "cooling". Sun control is very important, it's good you have shaded the windows. Try to increase the ventilation this should put the tempterature down inside the house. By the way, your problems with humidity in winter - have you tried to put some water into the pipe so it could put the humidity up?
My earth heat exchanger has got different construction but it is recomended to put the water to it for the humidity increase.
What the lowest temperature have you received from your earth pipe during the winter?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, only electricity. Our first plan was: el. convectors, 50€/pc x 8 pc = 400 €. And el. boiler 150 €. Very cheap, heating for 550 €.
But I don´t like convectors on the wall or on the floor... and walk around them... and clean them from dust... oh no... So we decided to install floor heating joined on boiler. The boiler is the only source for warm water in household and for heating, too. We bought Logitex 125 liters (prepared for photovolt. panels - next year). The boiler has an exchanger (snake) which will serve for floor heating. Floor heating will take warm from the boiler through the "snake". This system´s price is 1200 €.

QUOTE(==== @ 2012 08 18, 12:28)

Hi,
Does it mean - electricity is the main and the only energy source in your house? What kind of heating system you have installed in your house?
My house is being planned to use electricity only, therefore it is interesting for me what kind of heating solutions you have chosen. 
Thanks.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

WOW PV for DHW! The grid would pay nearly 0.50EUR/kWh made by PV in Lithuania, I would say not the cheapest way to heat the domestic water
The only advantage I see is the energy vaste from the PV panel and the electrical heater in the boiler - that is definatelly more eficient that vacuum type of sun collector we used to use for DHW.
What about the price of the system? How much is the PV panels for the family of 4 water demands? I do travel though Slovakia time to time, I have noticed a big increase in PV fields, can say "well done"
What about wind power? That is a bit cheaper to install, do you use wind power for DHW as well?
Papildyta:

Jarka, I think you have done the same mistake like me The floor heating in passive house is just a money waisting. A small one level house living two with heated floor of 83m2 has used ~380m3 of gas last winter, from 07/10 to 01/04, that including the DHW (asistance to vacuum collector). I can not remember even one day when I stood on that floor and could enjoy the heat, the warm of it - the temperature has been very close to the air temperature in the house.
I think the best way of pasive house heating is a post heater in the ventilation system, just a simple liquid-to-air exchanger or electrical air heater in the supply duct. Cheap and fast to install, can be fed by any sourse of energy. I bet that would much cheaper to install than the pipes in your and my floor.

Gas = is it real?
But I don´t see similarity in prices for electricity... You wrote prices 10 times bigger than I did... Is there any mistake?

Fire place. Passive or "almost-passiv" = better low energy houses in Slovakia have total energy loss 1,5-3 kW. Calculating ext. temperatures are -12 to -21°C. Most of Slovakia has -12 or -15°C. Fire places have power range from 2 kW to 4 or 5 kW. If people use the fire place, they use it for short time on low power. Many of them love temperatures 24-26°C = they are glad that fire place increases the temperature e.g. from 23 to 26!!! Or from 21 to 23°C. They want fire place for pleasure, romantics... I think it isn´t unreal to have it in passive house. Very important is: the accumulation ability / capacity in the floor and walls.

Something similar happens in our house during the day when the sun is shining: when the sun shines through south windows, temperature in the house goes up... from 20 to 24°C. But when it goes around the house (to the west), temperature in the house comes back slowly down. On sunny day, by ext. temperature -10°C, the house doesn´t need heating.


Papildyta:
I agree.

If somebody will tell you LABAS - that means the same, "Hi"

I know the will be many people in this forum to ask a lot of questions about your earth pipe how deep is it, how long, what is the diameter, what kind of pipe have you used and so on...I am very curious about the performance - what the lowest will you get in summer and what the temperature you get in winter maintaning your ventilation. I have tested mine - I am very proud of it. Hope and wish you will do so
Papildyta:

Sorry, not ten, but hundred times We are not so wealthy, I've ment Eur cents: from 10 to 14 euro cent for kWh, sorry once again
Gas - yes, we are "best friends" with Putin and gasprom, bastards special price for Lithuania
The tarif is based if the monthly use is <500m3 (think all the passive houses will fall into that) and if the use higher the tariff is slightly better but still far from yours.